Naturopathic Nonsense

November 5, 2011 at 2:24 pm (Naturopathy) (, , , , , , , , )

A Naturopathic Doctor makes some interesting claims on their website. Let’s take a look at some of them.

We can frequently observe a strong immune reaction in kids, as they mount a very high fever. Their illness is intense, but short-lived, because their bodies are very efficient in destroying microbes. Low-grade fever and lingering post-infection symptoms are seen frequently in adults. This is a typical reaction of a still working, but much weaker immune system. Watch what symptoms you get. They can tell you if your immune system is strong or not. http://www.drdnaturopath.com/index.php/low-immune-system-causes/

The ND doesn’t tell us whether the weakening of the immune system as we age is relevant to just older individuals or to all adults. Is the weakening of the immune system relevant to a fit thirtysomething? They don’t say, they leave that for the reader to interpret.

Then there’s the generalisations – that kids generally have high-grade fevers and adults generally have low-grade fevers. Is this true – or does it depend on the pathogen? Would a child with viral bronchopneumonia or TB get a high-grade fever? And how about an adult with lobar pneumonia or malaria – would they get a low-grade fever? I expect that the author can answer these queries easily enough, as they state on their website that they fully understand immunity and the immune system: “I took few years before I fully understood immunity and the immune system.”

You experience chronic tingling and pain in your hands, so you: a) Take pain killers b) Take vitamin B12, since deficiency of this vitamin causes hand tingling c) Improve stomach health, so you can absorb vitamin B12 from food rather than from supplements. http://www.drdnaturopath.com/index.php/good-correctors-bad-correctors/

According to Dr D, the correct answer here is (c) – improve stomach health so you can absorb vitamin B12. I’d have thought the correct answer would be (d) See your GP, but this option is not given by the ND. Dr D writes that “you feel better, your health is better, your whole body is better” and claims: “This is how you get truly healthy. Find the cause, remove the cause, and improve health permanently.”

Have they actually “found the cause” and removed it though? I’m no expert, but I’d have thought that if you had a lack of intrinsic factor, then attempts at “improving stomach health” to aid absorption of vitamin B12 from food would do nothing – unless by “improving stomach health”, they mean “growing new gastric parietal cells”. If your symptoms have arisen from something other than vitamin B12 deficiency, then “improving stomach health” to aid absorption of B12 will (obviously) do nothing – and there could be a number of reasons why someone might suffer from tingling and pain, B12 deficiency is just one of them. It could be due to poor circulation, inflammation, neuropathy from injury or infection, multiple sclerosis, pressure on the nerves, abnormal levels of calcium (or potassium, or sodium), bites, or toxins.

You might think that someone who earns a living as a medical professional might be a bit more circumspect when it comes to offering such nuggets of wisdom on the internet. A blanket recommendation to “improve stomach health” with the aim of increasing absorption of vitamin B12 to counteract deficiency, ignoring all other possible causes of tingling and pain in the hands, seems unwise.

This website doesn’t contain the most outrageous nonsense I’ve seen from naturopathic practitioners, though. Far from it. I think Dr Georgiou the naturopathic sexologist, inventor of Heavy Metal Detox™, is difficult to beat on that score. I’ve added a couple of links to the following quote but here’s what Dr George J Georgiou claims to specialise in:

Herbal medicine, Homepathy, Hyperthermia, Thermography, Iridology/sclerology, Colon hydrotherapy, Naturopathy, Naturopathic Sexology, Psychotherapy, Live Blood Analysis, Bio-resonance therapy, Biological Terrain Analysis, VEGA allergy testing, Infrared and Ozone sauna, ART, HRV, MRT, Orgone Accumulator, PAPIMI, Rife Technology.

(If you’ve not got woo bingo by this point, then you’ve not been paying attention.)

60 Comments

  1. anarchic teapot said,

    “chronic tingling and pain in your hands” – Yup, had that. Was diagnosed as Thoracic Outlet Syndrome, which can have many causes. There are a number of treatments, but B12 ain’t one.

    I think if ever I meet an idiot like that they’ll never find the body. Krakatoa would be small beer compared to the explosion you’d get.

  2. Andi Mell said,

    That’s quite a statement “anarchic teapot”. Its sad that both you and James don’t even know, that you don’t know.

    Some following you got there James, not really a surprise though considering the quality of your posts. Makes me wonder what kind of a person would make such a ridicules comment. Only considering the reply, doesn’t even qualify it as a pseudo intellectual. However, fits my idea of a “sad little man” (no gender attached). That would make it a “little teapot” (no physical size attached)

    I take it back James, you are not an intolerant pseudo intellectual, interested only in picking apart irrelevant details, rather then looking at the whole story. You are an intolerant pseudo intellectual, not capable of looking at the whole story, you are only able to pick apart irrelevant details.

  3. anarchic teapot said,

    “Its sad that both you and James don’t even know, that you don’t know.”
    Meaningless statements do not a cogent argument make.

    I assume Andi Mell is ignorant of how painful and disabling TOS is, as the only other conclusion is that he/she is incredibly callous.

  4. jdc325 said,

    “I assume Andi Mell is ignorant…”
    I’ve come to that conclusion myself.

  5. Cybertiger said,

    Sad little nincompoop

  6. Andi Mell said,

    Now that’s a funny response after your initial comment, teapot. Hope you don’t mind me calling you teapot and to answer your question I’m male.
    That’s an interesting way to structure the second sentence, sounds like it was translated word for word from another language.
    I’m curious teapot, how would one go about disposing of a body and creating this explosion you described so colorfully? Considering the painful and disabling TOS.
    Re. your TOS cause, have you ever considered that God hates you? On a serious note, making assumptions and unfounded statements is something you have in common with James.

  7. Andi Mell said,

    How about you finally answer my question about your educational background, James? Telling me that you don’t have a background in science or medicine. and have no relevant qualifications, is just repeating what I have said all along. I have pointed out your errors on several occasions and provided some good information. You not understanding only furthers my point.
    BTW isn’t the title redundant considering the name of your blog.

  8. jdc325 said,

    “That’s an interesting way to structure the second sentence, sounds like it was translated word for word from another language.”
    Coming from you, Andi, that is rather amusing. Have you read your own posts here? I think that when it comes to English Language, you’re perhaps as unskilled and unaware of it as in the fields of Science or Medicine. If you’re going to poke fun at other people’s comments, perhaps you should make sure that your own are coherent.

    “Re. your TOS cause, have you ever considered that God hates you?”
    Ah, you cuddly, fluffy alt med advocates. You’re just lovely aren’t you?

  9. jdc325 said,

    “How about you finally answer my question about your educational background, James? Telling me that you don’t have a background in science or medicine. and have no relevant qualifications, is just repeating what I have said all along.”
    What more do you need to know? What else is there to say? You’ve claimed that I am incapable of critical thinking and have no expertise in science or medicine, and asked about my educational background. I’ve confirmed that I have no background in science or medicine – how is this not an answer to your question? My educational background does not involve qualifications in science or medicine at degree level or A-level. How much clearer can I be? Do you want to see scanned copies of my GCSE results or something?

    “I have pointed out your errors on several occasions and provided some good information.”
    Here’s the thing, Andi – you may think that you’ve pointed out errors but you haven’t. You really haven’t. Neither have you provided good information. I’m not sure you’d be capable of judging whether information was ‘good’ or not, I think you’re probably capable only of providing information that tallies with your mistaken beliefs regardless of the quality. Do feel free to prove me wrong by posting reliable evidence that is at odds with my posts here.

    PS: you’ve been discussing science and medicine in the comments under a couple of my posts here. What are your qualifications in science and medicine?

  10. Deetee said,

    “Heavy Metal Detox” sounds like just the thing my teenage son needs to undergo to stop my family suffering mental meltdown from the subsonic bass vibration.

    I will be contacting Dr Giorgeou forthwith.

  11. Deetee said,

    Andi,

    I think that pointing out that a naturopathic doctor’s assumptions that symptoms of neuropathy are due to a deficiency of B12 (one of the very rarely encountered causes) is entirely appropriate. As a physician, I can tell you that the last time I saw a B12 neuropathy was more than 2 decades ago, and that’s not because I wasn’t looking. I estimate that for every neuropathy caused by B12 deficiency encountered in general practice, there would be hundreds of alternative likelier explanations for the symptoms.

    Having enjoyed jdc’s posts here for some time, I am of the opinion that he knows more about medicine than most altmed practitioners, despite their putative “training”.

  12. anarchic teapot said,

    ” to answer your question I’m male.”
    I didn’t ask and don’t particularly care.

    “That’s an interesting way to structure the second sentence, sounds like it was translated word for word from another language.”
    If you consider perfectly good English another language… Of course, it might well be in your case.

    “I’m curious teapot, how would one go about disposing of a body and creating this explosion you described so colorfully?”
    Have you heard of the useful literary device know as metaphor? Or hyperbole?

    “Re. your TOS cause, have you ever considered that God hates you?”
    No. Why should I worry about a hypothetical deity, whose followers claim is Love Incarnate, hating me anyway?

    “On a serious note, making assumptions and unfounded statements is something you have in common with James.”
    I hate to break it to you, but we’re not the ones pulling accusations out of the blue.

  13. Andi Mell said,

    Very well, teapot is back. Thanks for the long awaited response. Was the late reply due to your crippling TOS? I’m so sorry, can’t even imagine.
    Hey, what do I know about English in your part of the world? Don’t know who you are or where you’re from, so anonymous. Anyways in my part of the world we would have thrown “make” a little earlier on into the sentence. No harm done however, I understood what you were trying to say. I admit, I had to look up “Krakatoa” to understand that reference. Considering the debilitating TOS a bit exaggerated though, don’t you think?
    Don’t worry about the God reference, just my attempt at humor. Sorry you didn’t get it. BTW B12 may help with your emotional issues, its an important co-factor in the methylation cycle.
    I now realize you are not just ignorant and possibly even more intolerant then James, but you are also a pseudo intellectual.

    @ Deetee
    Dr. Deetee is it? There is no way I can believe you are a physician. If you are, I feel sorry for your patients. When last have you taken the time to examine anything thoroughly? Did you even bother reading the articles?James posted the links! I didn’t feel the need to point out the quality of this post, I have done so many times. James completely misrepresented the articles, because he doesn’t have the capacity to understand. “That” he has demonstrated repeatedly. B12 for “chronic tingling and pain in your hands” was an example, the article was about correctors. As usual he takes irrelevant details and tramples them with his “unknowledge”. How can one have an opinion, lacking facts and knowledge? The uses and benefits of Vitamin B12 are well documented.

    @ James
    I now understand why you have’t answered my question, you didn’t understand it! How can I make it clearer? I wasn’t asking about what you don’t know, I was asking about what you do know. You know ….. your educational background. What did you study at school, work, CEU’s etc. I will give you an example and answer your final question:
    Licensed General Carpenter (mostly worked for myself after finishing apprenticeship); long haul truck driver (during recession); heavy equipment mechanic for deep foundation contractor in hydro carbon industry – on and off shore – promoted to plant and equipment manager; service manager/trainer for multi-equipment dealer; last year I went back to college to retrain as registered massage therapist. I graduated at the top of my class with a 93% average. I need to add, that a RMT is a regulated health professional and in my part of the world we are one of the highest trained world wide. In fact we receive over 3 times the training as compared to the UK. I can say that with confidence, as one of my class mates was a massage therapist, freshly form the UK.
    I don’t care to see your GCSE result and would never ask. Again James, I’m not interested in holding your hand, to guide you through “reliable evidence”. It’s your posts, do your own research before voicing an opinion and write about something you understand.

  14. jdc325 said,

    “BTW B12 may help with your emotional issues, its an important co-factor in the methylation cycle.”
    Hang on – a back rubber is giving dubious medical advice over the internet to someone he’s never even met… Are you so addicted to bullshitting that you can’t see how inappropriate that is?

  15. jdc325 said,

    “James completely misrepresented the articles, because he doesn’t have the capacity to understand.”
    Point out how I’ve done so – don’t just make assertions, make a case. Pointing out that the advice on B12 and tingling & pain was unworthy of a medical professional was quite appropriate – and I don’t think that the advice is “an irrelevant detail”. The article as a whole may have been about ‘correctors’, but pointing out that a chunk of the article contained misunderstandings and poor advice is perfectly reasonable. I didn’t attack the entire article on the basis of the quoted section – I attacked that section. I think my criticism is valid, relevant, and accurately represents the part of the article being criticised.

    As for the immune system – I do hope you’re not going to complain that the quoted section about the immune system that contained misunderstandings and misinformation was “an irrelevant detail” given that the article itself was about the immune system. Dr D claims to fully understand the immune system – it’s clear from the quoted section of the article that either this isn’t true, or Dr D is stunningly bad at communicating their views.

  16. jdc325 said,

    “Again James, I’m not interested in holding your hand, to guide you through “reliable evidence”. It’s your posts, do your own research before voicing an opinion and write about something you understand.”
    I’ve done my research – the evidence shows that Dr D knows little about the immune system and gives poor advice with regard to pain & tingling.

  17. Andi Mell said,

    More rhetoric, a lame insult and all BS = boring, which is synonymous with James.

    Gimme a break James. Inform yourself and get a clue. You don’t even know the physiological role of B12. And still it was only an example, of course there are many potential causes for tingling and pain.

    The only thing “stunningly bad” is your comprehension and reasoning.

    P.S. My profession has nothing to do with caoutchouc or synthetic elastomers.

  18. jdc325 said,

    “You don’t even know the physiological role of B12.”
    I think you mean “roles” here, or “one of the roles”.

    “And still it was only an example, of course there are many potential causes for tingling and pain.”
    That’s something that Dr D didn’t even think to allude to. Don’t you think that it would have been a good idea to mention that B12 deficiency is just one possible cause of the symptoms referred to? (I’d also point out that even if the symptoms were due to vitamin B12 deficiency, if this deficiency was due to a lack of intrinsic factor then Dr D’s recommendation would still be inappropriate for the reasons given in my blog post. All in all, this was a very poor example for Dr D to give.)

    “The only thing “stunningly bad” is your comprehension and reasoning.”
    If that’s true, then you’ll find it easy to point out clear examples of my failure to comprehend and my inability to reason. Please do so.

  19. anarchic teapot said,

    Ah, so sweet: this post has got its own little troll. Not a very good one, but nevertheless. Not one who’d ever imagine that people can get treatment other than from naturopaths for illnesses, and that these treatments can work. Oh deary me, no.

    This one had me rolling in the aisles, though: “what do I know about English in your part of the world?” If you don’t know anything about it, the wisest course is not to say anything.

    Anyway, troll aside: there’s been a lot of stuff in the media here over the past few days, discussing the study that found vitamin supplements to be bad for your health, unless medically indicated (and therefore prescribed). So just generally prescribing B12 without eliminating other causes first could potentially be worse than doing nothing until it becomes unbearable.

  20. Andi Mell said,

    @ James and Teapot.

    I think both of you would be perfect for a sequel to “Dumb & Dumber”, that is if they are looking for angry instead of funny. Remember though you can’t just pick out sections of the script, you’ll have to use the entire script to complete the movie.

  21. Andi Mell said,

    @ Teapot

    I think that’s very good with the supplements and prescription. What’s the point of taking them unless a deficiency or need has been established. What’s more interesting though is, who will now prescribe them? MD’s do not have any core training in nutrition and a weekend CEU course is just not the same. Thank God in my part of the world we have highly trained ND’s, in fact their training is one of the highest in the world and an integral part of their core training is nutrition. ND’s and MD’s are the only health professionals that can perform parenteral therapy. Out of the two, who do you think has the expertise to prescribe and administer nutrients and I’m talking about more then just Vitamin B12. By all means you are always welcome to reply, understand I’m talking about qualified professionals and not some weekend warrior. Please make sure that this time you know what you are talking about, especially pertaining to my part of the world. If you don’t know where that is, ask your buddy James.

  22. jdc325 said,

    “angry”
    Who’s angry, Andi? Not me. If you’ve read something into my posts that isn’t there, it wouldn’t be the first time.

  23. jdc325 said,

    “Thank God in my part of the world we have highly trained ND’s, in fact their training is one of the highest in the world”
    If that is true, and if what Dr D wrote is also true (“I took few years before I fully understood immunity and the immune system”), then how on earth did Dr D get it so wrong when writing about the immune system?

  24. jdc325 said,

    “By all means you are always welcome to reply, understand I’m talking about qualified professionals and not some weekend warrior. ”
    I do hope you’re not including yourself when you say “qualified professionals” Andi. As a back rubber, you’re no better qualified to discuss medicine than a barman is.

  25. Andi Mell said,

    More of the same angry, hateful and most of all mindless comments. You just don’t know, that you don’t know and that simply makes you dumb.

    Again with the elastomer reference how primitive and most of all ….. boring

  26. jdc325 said,

    “More of the same angry, hateful and most of all mindless comments.”
    I can see why you’d like to characterise the following as “angry, hateful and most of all mindless”, but that would be a mischaracterisation of reasonable criticism.

    “Thank God in my part of the world we have highly trained ND’s, in fact their training is one of the highest in the world”
    If that is true, and if what Dr D wrote is also true (“I took few years before I fully understood immunity and the immune system”), then how on earth did Dr D get it so wrong when writing about the immune system?

    Because you can’t respond to this reasonable criticism, you resort to criticising the tone of my comments.

  27. Andi Mell said,

    What are you even talking about, James? Are you disagreeing with all she wrote or are you saying that because it took Dr D a few years to fully understand the immune system, she was wrong? If it’s the second part, you are retarded, because you don’t even understand the context of that sentence and it is the Linus Pauling argument all over again. If its the first, summarize the article for me and tell me what’s wrong?

    The reason that I have been hanging on so far, is simple. I have been trying to understand what your kind of bloggers are all about. Why are you so hateful, angry, intolerant, ignorant etc. Some of you are pharma shills, some of you aren’t, I make no assumptions. Why you? Coincidence, I read your histadelia post and thought it was quite innocent. So I posted a comment, from there I quickly realized what you are about. Your replies kept me intrigued enough to want to learn more.

    Don’t make so many assumptions James, it really doesn’t help your cause.

    The reason I have been using increasingly stronger language is because I agree with “Neuroskeptic” in your Nov 1st post.

    Do you have any alter egos commenting here, James?

    Cheers

    Andi

  28. jdc325 said,

    “If its the first, summarize the article for me and tell me what’s wrong?”
    The ND doesn’t tell us whether the weakening of the immune system as we age is relevant to just older individuals or to all adults. Is the weakening of the immune system relevant to a fit thirtysomething? They don’t say, they leave that for the reader to interpret.

    Then there’s the generalisations – that kids generally have high-grade fevers and adults generally have low-grade fevers. Is this true – or does it depend on the pathogen? Would a child with viral bronchopneumonia or TB get a high-grade fever? And how about an adult with lobar pneumonia or malaria – would they get a low-grade fever?

  29. jdc325 said,

    “Why are you so hateful, angry, intolerant, ignorant etc.”
    I’m not. Why do you have such a distorted picture of me?

    “Some of you are pharma shills, some of you aren’t, I make no assumptions.”
    Oh, yes? Which bloggers are pharma shills then?

    “Do you have any alter egos commenting here, James?”
    No.

  30. colmcq said,

    @Andi Mell I’m new here. Can you explain how B12 works physiologically speaking?

    tx

  31. Andi Mell said,

    @ James

    28) Where is the summary of the article, James? You’ve only picked out little details.
    “They don’t say, they leave that for the reader to interpret”, who is they?

  32. Andi Mell said,

    @ colcq

    Who are you and why the request?

  33. jdc325 said,

    @Andi,

    I have some comments with regard to your query “Where is the summary of the article, James? You’ve only picked out little details”.

    Your “all she wrote” / “because it took Dr D a few years to fully understand the immune system” was a false dichotomy. There were other alternatives that you did not mention. One of which was that, regardless of the quality of Dr D’s article as a whole, parts of the article were worthy of criticism. I criticised one of those parts. You will note that, in my blog post, I refrained from commenting on the article as a whole and merely pointed to a section of it that was poorly written and inaccurate. My criticism is valid, and it stands.

    I also have a comment to make on this: ““They don’t say, they leave that for the reader to interpret”, who is they?”
    In that sentence, “they” refers to the author of the article on the immune system. This sentence was the third of a three sentence paragraph and was preceded by an opening sentence in which I referred to the ND (who is named as the author of the post). I think that it’s quite clear in the blog post that I am referring to the author, and no-one else has asked who I was referring to or complained of any lack of clarity. If your reading comprehension is so poor that a three sentence paragraph (understood by hundreds of other people and misunderstood only by you) has you stumped then I’m not surprised that attempts to debate with you have been so fruitless. Perhaps you simply haven’t understood anything you’ve read on this site. That would explain why your comments here read like those of an abusive chatbot.

  34. Andi Mell said,

    James ….. seriously? You didn’t just go there. That’s like somebody writing an article: “Seat-belt kills in car crash” and you come up with all kinds of statistics of how seat-belts safe lives. Not covering the entire context of an article is a misrepresentation, that’s at least dishonest and possibly stupid. You challenge me and then you can’t even summarize the article. As I’ve mentioned many times already, you are only capable of picking out irrelevant details and trample them with your “unknowledge”.
    I’m curious, which one part is wrong and explain why?

    Again who is they? I know Dr D wrote the article, but who is the other person or persons? They is “PLURAL”! If you didn’t know the gender (which is easy to establish), it is common to use “he”, when referring to one person, but not “they”. Your whole lengthy mindless rant is about yourself …… now that’s funny. You are still the biggest BS here.

  35. Cybertiger said,

    @ colcq Who are you and why the request?

    This is another sad little nincompoop who asks silly little questions

  36. Andi Mell said,

    @ Cybertiger

    Possibly, don’t like making assumptions. Certainly is curious, how when the heat is on James, these responses from anonymous source come up. Could be interpreted as a diversion.
    Watch him now with a silly response to this very comment rather then the real issue he challenged, how could he not have the last word on his on post after severe criticism.

  37. jdc325 said,

    “Again who is they? I know Dr D wrote the article, but who is the other person or persons? They is “PLURAL”! If you didn’t know the gender (which is easy to establish), it is common to use “he”, when referring to one person, but not “they”.”
    I was using the singular ‘they’. It may be common to use ‘he’ when referring to one person (gender unknown) but I believe it is acceptable to use the singular ‘they’.
    I note that you seem to be very interested in this irrelevant detail. Which is ironic, given your constant assertions that I am “only able to pick at irrelevant details”. In fact, there’s just such an assertion in the very comment where you pick at this irrelevant detail.

  38. jdc325 said,

    “Not covering the entire context of an article is a misrepresentation, that’s at least dishonest and possibly stupid.”
    Only if you’re criticising the whole article. I criticised specific, quoted sections. My criticism is valid and it stands. I have done nothing dishonest here and you making that unfounded accusation is simply further evidence (as if further evidence were needed) of your inaccuracy and lack of manners. You accusing me of stupidity is ironic to say the least. (If you’re wondering why, please re-read your many posts on this site.)

  39. jdc325 said,

    “I’m curious, which one part is wrong and explain why?”
    The section I quoted is wrong. Here’s why:
    (1) The ND doesn’t tell us whether the weakening of the immune system as we age is relevant to just older individuals or to all adults. It isn’t relevant to all adults, as Dr D implies. This weakening of the immune system doesn’t matter in younger or middle aged adults. To a fit thirtysomething, it’s irrelevant.
    (2) Dr D states that “We can frequently observe a strong immune reaction in kids, as they mount a very high fever. Their illness is intense, but short-lived, because their bodies are very efficient in destroying microbes. Low-grade fever and lingering post-infection symptoms are seen frequently in adults. This is a typical reaction of a still working, but much weaker immune system.” This is nonsense. A child with viral bronchopneumonia or TB gets low grade fever. An adult with lobar pneumonia or malaria gets high grade fever. It depends a lot on the nature of the pathogen.

  40. jdc325 said,

    “Certainly is curious, how when the heat is on James, these responses from anonymous source come up. Could be interpreted as a diversion.”
    Yeah, it could be interpreted as a diversion. If those comments were from me (they’re not) and if I were under pressure (I’m not), that is.

    Why on earth you think “the heat is on” me is beyond me. You haven’t presented a single coherent argument or a scrap of reliable evidence. You must have posted at least 25-30 comments on my blog, but not one coherent argument and no evidence. So why would I be under pressure? If you want to apply pressure then you’re going to have to do more than just make silly ad hom assertions about me.

  41. Andi Mell said,

    Well that would be incorrect, James. “They” would at least have to be in a reference to a group, but not a single person. Your note is BS, I was simply pointing out how lazy you are. Not only didn’t you understand the article, (which leaves doubt that you even fully read it, or is it possible that you really have such a lack of comprehension), but you didn’t even find out anything about the author. And if you did, by not using the appropriate gender in reference to the author it already shows a lack of professionalism, courtesy, respect and most of all bias.

    I understand that you may have further questions about the immune system after reading the article, but the article wasn’t about that. I can’t give you the summary, how would you learn and grow? Sure, if I do your homework you will get good marks, but then they are my marks not yours and you’ve still understood nothing. I will give you three hints though: you are taking the tilte out of context and part of what the article is about, is in the first sentence. Also check the date of the article it is in advance of a specific season.

    To answer your final question – you are mostly on the defensive, trying to explain yourself.

    As for everything else more rhetoric and …… even more boring now.

  42. doomrock said,

    Andi. If an article is full of stupid why does it matter who wrote it and what sex they are? Why does not knowing the sex of the author prove bias?

  43. Andi Mell « Well Known Trolls said,

    […] “Dr D Naturopath“, Andi Mell is a bit of a failure as a troll. As can be seen here and here, all Andi has to offer is criticism of sentence structure (for a grammar pedant, Andi has an […]

  44. colmcq said,

    @jdc care to give me a quick lowdown on how B12 works, physiologically speaking?

  45. jdc325 said,

    “Well that would be incorrect, James. “They” would at least have to be in a reference to a group, but not a single person.”
    No, it wouldn’t be incorrect. Whether use of the singular they is acceptable is a matter of debate, but it is not incorrect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they HTH.

    “you didn’t even find out anything about the author”
    I thought you didn’t like making assumptions Andi. So why do you keep making them? In fact, I was aware before publishing this post that the author was a woman by the name of Dorothy Adamiak so your assumption is mistaken. Why are the author’s name and gender so important to you? They’re not to me. I’m more concerned with the content of the articles that they’ve written. (Perhaps you’d like to answer doomrock’s questions on this at some point.)

    “To answer your final question – you are mostly on the defensive, trying to explain yourself.”
    Ah, I see you’re mischaracterising my courtesy in replying politely to your trolling as “trying to explain myself” and being “on the defensive”.

  46. Helen said,

    The use of the plural to convey indeterminate gender is interesting. It seems to me that it sits more comfortably when the person using it could not know the gender to which they are referring. For that reason:

    “Someone is knocking on the door. They are very persistent”

    seems acceptable, while

    “Someone put their head round the door”

    seems (as pointed out by Julian Barnes in “Talking it Over” plain weird, seeming to imply one head with many bodies.

    The difference between the two applications in that in the former, the “speaker” does not know the gender of the knocker, while in the latter, extreme cases aside, the speaker *does* know the gender of the head-putter-rounder, and therefore *could* have used his or her.

  47. jdc325 said,

    @colmcq

    The quick answer to that is “as an enzyme cofactor” (Banerjee and Ragsdale describe B12 thus: “a complex organometallic cofactor associated with three subfamilies of enzymes: the adenosylcobalamin-dependent isomerases, the methylcobalamin-dependent methyltransferases, and the dehalogenases”).

    Of course, it’s a bit more complicated than that (for example, B12 can also regulate gene expression via RNA-based riboswitches). And my explanation of ‘how B12 works, physiologically speaking’ doesn’t tell you what effects B12 has (regeneration of folate is perhaps the most obvious).

    I note that it’s taken Andi Mell over 48 hours to not answer your question.

  48. Andi Mell said,

    @ James

    Your beating the dead horse again and while trying to save face, you misrepresent my comment. I also said in the very next sentence: “And if you did, by not using the appropriate gender in reference to the author it already shows a lack of professionalism, courtesy, respect and most of all bias.” Makes your argument null and void, but also makes “Helen’s” comment irrelevant.

    You are making my point with you own link:
    “Singular they indicates indeterminacy in regard to: number (example given) and gender (example given)”. You admitting having known the authors gender, simply shows your lack of professionalism, courtesy, respect and most of all it shows bias. Furthermore another quote form your own link: “Though singular they is widespread in everyday English and has a long history of usage, debate continues about its acceptability”.

    Your repeated misrepresentations, at least show dishonesty.

    doomrock is an even more primitive version of you, James. And that makes his questions as well as comments irrelevant.

    “Ah, I see you’re mischaracterising my courtesy in replying politely …..”, if you really believe that, you are delusional. I know that I haven’t always been polite and make no bones about it. As I have said already, I agree with “Neuroskeptic” in your Nov 1st post.

    Number 43) is just another diversion. Besides the defamatory libel and hateful tone, the post is purely subjective. Just as most everything coming from you, James. Is this another one of your blogs, James? Or of an alter ego, associate, crony etc? Have you ever been diagnosed with schizophrenia? Do you have a schizophrenic alter ego? Do you know anything about this post? Can you tell the truth? Do you ever feel shame?

    Diversions aside, lets get back on topic and finish the challenge you have proposed. Summarize the article, James. I have given you some hints already, or are you going to proof me right.

  49. colmcq said,

    @JDC No, I think Andy will answer shortly; he gives me the strong impression that he knows at least some biochem and as a chemist I am genuinely interested to hear what his thoughts are. Of course, if @Andy is a crank he won’t be able to answer.

  50. Andi Mell said,

    @ James

    Although misguided, I do admire your persistence. The last time I had such an intense debate on a leading health blog, it only took me three lengthy comments, after which the blog management intervened. They removed all comments and links, including mine and only left the posted article with an apology by the author of the very article, for misrepresenting information.

  51. doomrock said,

    Oh noes!!!! I’m primitive!!!! Why not answer my primitive questions? Is it perhaps because you can’t without showing yourself up?

    You said “And if you did, by not using the appropriate gender in reference to the author it already shows a lack of professionalism, courtesy, respect and most of all bias.”

    Why does it show bias?

    I know it’s a primitive question, but then it should be easy to answer shouldn’t it?

    Come on keyboard warrior, lets have it.

    (Admit that you’ve been pwned on the “they” thing. As you have quoted yourself, “Though singular they is widespread in everyday English”. Simple really isn’t it?)

  52. Andi Mell said,

    @ clomcq

    You now finally answered my question. How can I even be sure that you are telling the truth? You certainly qualify as a diversion, as your question has nothing to do with the posted article. Thanks for the compliment. However I would have told you to read a book, as this is hardly the proper medium for your question.

    If James and his kind were fish, they would feed the masses. They just have to take any bait.

    @ James

    Lets not get of topic again, James. Answer my question, how long has that taken you so far? Remember it’s was your challenge and at least it’s about the article.

  53. doomrock said,

    Andi says “Answer my question”. That’s funny.

  54. nobby68 said,

    i have been following the shenanigans of Mr mells comments since the histadelia post. this has to be the best comment so far for making me spit my coffee all over the screen:

    “Lets not get of topic again”

    like he was ever on topic, well the topic of the post as you would expect.

    are you ever going to address the two points raised by james on numerous occasions which you maintain are wrong, misleading, misrepresentations etc. You could ask your boss for the answer as she wrote the article it seems:

    (1) The ND doesn’t tell us whether the weakening of the immune system as we age is relevant to just older individuals or to all adults. It isn’t relevant to all adults, as Dr D implies. This weakening of the immune system doesn’t matter in younger or middle aged adults. To a fit thirtysomething, it’s irrelevant.
    (2) Dr D states that “We can frequently observe a strong immune reaction in kids, as they mount a very high fever. Their illness is intense, but short-lived, because their bodies are very efficient in destroying microbes. Low-grade fever and lingering post-infection symptoms are seen frequently in adults. This is a typical reaction of a still working, but much weaker immune system.” This is nonsense. A child with viral bronchopneumonia or TB gets low grade fever. An adult with lobar pneumonia or malaria gets high grade fever. It depends a lot on the nature of the pathogen.

    p.s. Mr Mell maybe you need to read this on schizophrenia so you can correct your faulty belief in your understanding of it. you seem to not know the difference between it and the dubious Dissociative identity disorder:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia

    p.p.s i am not jdc325 or ever have been.

  55. colmcq said,

    @andy I expected links to other resources, of course, but I also kinda hoped for a broad overview, which JDC gave. Why is this relevant? Because I want to enter a conversation with you about the role of B12 in certain metabolic pathways, but I need to know if we’re on the same page with regards to our understanding of the biochemistry. Genuinely interested in chatting about this, sharing ideas etc.

  56. jdc325 said,

    Just for Andi, I’ve taken the trouble to do something I hadn’t originally set out to do. I’m going to summarise the article for him. Here’s my summary:

    It was something of a curate’s egg.

  57. Andi Mell said,

    @ Colmcq

    Send me your contact info, I’m sure you understand it would be inappropriate to have this conversation here.

  58. Andi Mell said,

    @ James

    Thanks so much, James. I appreciate you having gone through all that trouble. Well that settles it then.

    Cheers

    Andi

  59. nobby68 said,

    how long before the penny drops?

  60. and1mell said,

    @ nobby68

    Yes, exactly.

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