Several websites extol the virtues of Apple Cider Vinegar. Variously, it has been promoted as a weight loss aid, a cure for arthritis, a cholesterol-lowering aid and according to Earth Clinic (http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acvinegar.html), it “cures more ailments than any other folk remedy”. The people at Earth Clinic also seem to think that Cider Vinegar “has anti-fungal, anti-bacterial, and anti-viral properties”. We will come back to the curative properties of Apple Cider Vinegar later.
Let’s see, what else do we have? Hmm, composition… “Apple Cider Vinegar contains cholesterol-reducing pectin and the perfect balance of 19 minerals, including potassium, phosphorus, chlorine, sodium, magnesium, calcium, sulfur, iron, fluorine and silicon.” (From http://www.parrothouse.com/acv.html). This should be easy to check, as USDA (the United States Department of Agriculture) provides an online database of nutrient values: http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/. I typed in Cider Vinegar and found that Cider Vinegar contains the following minerals (amounts per 100 grams):
| Minerals | ||
| Calcium, Ca | mg | 7 |
| Iron, Fe | mg | 0.20 |
| Magnesium, Mg | mg | 5 |
| Phosphorus, P | mg | 8 |
| Potassium, K | mg | 73 |
| Sodium, Na | mg | 5 |
| Zinc, Zn | mg | 0.04 |
| Copper, Cu | mg | 0.008 |
| Manganese, Mn | mg | 0.249 |
| Selenium, Se | mcg | 0.1 |
These minerals are present in miniscule amounts. To put this in some kind of context, the attached PDF ‘K in food’ shows levels of potassium in common foods. How much Cider Vinegar do you need to consume in order to get 300mg of Potassium? 410 grams. How much baked potato would you have to eat in order to obtian the same amount of potassium? 56 grams (about one third of a baked potato according to the PDF).
To put it another way - the Zinc present is 0.04mg, or 40 micrograms. This is 0.2% of the EU Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) for Zinc. How significant an amount is 0.2% of your RDA? Two thousandths of the amount you require daily. Great, now I just need to find some way of getting the other 99.8 of my RDA. (See PDF for foods rich in Zinc).
Enough of the composition. Let’s look at the claims. Earth Clinic are certainly not alone. http://www.lacetoleather.com/wondrugpag3.html (apart from having a slightly weird url) sings the praises of this natural remedy with almost religious zeal. They have an A-Z of ailments that stretches over two pages. They also have statements like this – “Rheumatism, arthritis, cancer, heart ailments, high blood pressure etc, are all signs that the body has been neglected by the suppression of natural heating crisises” and under insomnia, they recommend that “Under severe cases, a naturopath or homeopath should be consulted”. Brilliant. So if the apple cider with miniscule amounts of minerals doesn’t work, go buy some water that contains no active ingredient at all.
Given that there is an A-Z list of ailments that can be prevented/cured by Cider Vinegar, one might expect that Pubmed is full of studies into the myriad benefits of this wonderdrug. Let’s see. http://preview.tinyurl.com/372w99 gives us 14 results. Can you find one that shows Cider Vinegar to have benefits in humans? I can’t, but I did find these:
1. Such treatments as vegetarian diets, fresh or raw diets, allergy diets, no-dairy-products diets, fasting, vitamin and mineral supplementation, apple cider vinegar, and honey drinks are touted in the popular press as effective for the treatment of arthritis. In contrast to conventional therapies, the unproven treatments promise not only relief from symptoms but freedom from the disease as long as the diet regimen is followed. Several of the remedies appear to be harmless, but others are dangerous, especially if followed for prolonged periods. Nutrition professionals should be aware of the nature of these treatments and be prepared to offer sound, scientifically based but nonjudgmental care and information.
Management of patients using unproven regimens for arthritis.
J Am Diet Assoc. 1987 Sep;87(9):1211-4.
PMID: 3624710 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
2. Apple cider vinegar products are advertised in the popular press and over the Internet for treatment of a variety of conditions. After an adverse event was reported to the authors, eight apple cider vinegar tablet products were tested for pH, component acid content, and microbial growth. Considerable variability was found between the brands in tablet size, pH, component acid content, and label claims. Doubt remains as to whether apple cider vinegar was in fact an ingredient in the evaluated products. The inconsistency and inaccuracy in labelling, recommended dosages, and unsubstantiated health claims make it easy to question the quality of the products.
Esophageal injury by apple cider vinegar tablets and subsequent evaluation of products.
J Am Diet Assoc. 2005 Jul;105(7):1141-4.
PMID: 15983536 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
There doesn’t seem to be much evidence for the safety and efficacy of Cider Vinegar on Pubmed, so I had a look around. Maybe there are some scholarly articles not published on Pubmed that look at Cider Vinegar? http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0GCU/is_n6_v14/ai_20152545/pg_1 seems to be sceptical regarding the much vaunted benefits of Apple Cider Vinegar. Two quotes stand out for me:
“There is no scientific evidence that apple cider vinegar has any medicinal properties. While the folksy anecdotes from those who claim to have benefited from apple cider vinegar tonics may be amusing to read, they are simply that — anecdotes.”
“The Arthritis Foundation calls vinegar a harmless, but unproven, arthritis remedy. It points out that arthritis symptoms come and go, and that a person using an unproven remedy may think a remedy worked simply because they used it at a time when symptoms were going into natural remission. Such is undoubtedly the case for many of the “cures” connected to vinegar.”
EDIT: Spotted this – http://content.karger.com/produktedb/produkte.asp?typ=fulltext&file=nef80242. Quote: “Regular ingestion of cider vinegar is becoming an increasingly popular habit in Austria and Germany. Cider vinegar is described as a prophylaxis and cure for almost any disease or complaint. Doses from one teaspoon to six soupspoons per day have been recommended. A local bookshop offered nine different specialist books on the benefits of cider vinegar. Here we describe the case of a woman, in whom chronic ingestion of excessive amounts of cider vinegar caused serious health problems.” What kind of health problems? Well, the article is entitled ‘Hypokalemia, Hyperreninemia and Osteoporosis in a Patient Ingesting Large Amounts of Cider Vinegar’. Authors: Karl Lhotta, Günther Höfle, Rudolf Gasser, Gerd Finkenstedt. Ref: Nephron 1998;80:242-243 (DOI: 10.1159/000045180).
PDF links:
http://jdc325.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/zn-in-food.pdf
http://jdc325.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/k-in-foods.pdf
September 24, 2007 at 12:44 pm
You mean you don’t drink 50 litres of it a day to get your zinc fix? And does anyone explain why cider vinegar should be magically better for you than any other?
October 5, 2007 at 1:46 pm
nice – despite lack of evidence for efficacy Preparation X (for apple cide r vinegar, substitute any woo product) continues to be sold to unsuspecting gullible public.
i like the analysis of mineral content as a % of RDA, really shows just how wide of the mark most woo can be!
October 8, 2007 at 10:51 pm
came here from the comment you left. great info about acv. i mainly use it for hair/facial care, and have been very pleased with the results. i haven’t taken it internally at this point, and probably won’t now that i’ve read all of this. thanks!
April 7, 2008 at 4:08 pm
I have seen Medscape present a couple reviews on the beneficial glycemic-control effect of regular vinegar. You can ‘join’ Medscape, then search for “vinegar.” There appears to be a handful of decent articles with evidence regarding vingegar and blood sugar regulation (”postpriandal glucose” is a term used).
An example, from one of their reviews, of a controlled study with a dose-response effect is:
Ostman E, Granfeldt Y, Persson L, Bjorck I. Vinegar supplementation lowers glucose and insulin responses and increases satiety after a bread meal in healthy subjects. Eur J Clin Nutr. 2005;59,983-988.
This body of lietrature literature satisfies the criticisms of apple cider vinegar mentioned here: it does not depend upon some far-flung cosmophysiological theory, anecdotal evidence, or the presence of irrelevant levels of micronutrients, and it is not specific to apple cider vinegar versus plain old off-the-shelf vinegar. PS: you can also use the vinegar for household cleaning. Here’s mud in your eye!
April 8, 2008 at 7:38 am
Thanks for the comment Row1. It seems Danny was right and any old vinegar will do. So splash some (cheap, non-magical) vinegar on your fish & chips.
April 30, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Other studies on Pubmed show:
Naturally fermented vinegar contains peptides (short protein fragments) that inhibit angoitensin converting enzyme, which is associated with high blood pressure. In studies on hypertensive rats, vinegar reduces blood pressure to more normal values. Distilled vinegar lacks these peptides.
The short chain fatty acids (acetic acid, butyric acid and propionic acid) all have decent anti-inflammatory properties. They have been successfully used to treat inflammatory bowel disease in a double-blind study. Vinegar is rich in acetic acid.
The protective effect that dietary fiber has on colon cancer is probably from short chained fatty acids including acetic acid. Inert fiber like cellulose has no apparent benefit; the reduction in cancer is seen only with fermentable fiber.
Dilute acetic acid is also widely used in cervical exams because the cancerous and precancerous cells cannot deal with it, and they turn white and are easy to spot.
April 30, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Thanks for your comments Jonah. I’ve quoted your comment below and added a couple of my own thoughts/queries in square brackets.
Other studies on Pubmed show:
Naturally fermented vinegar contains peptides (short protein fragments) that inhibit angoitensin converting enzyme, which is associated with high blood pressure. In studies on hypertensive rats, vinegar reduces blood pressure to more normal values. Distilled vinegar lacks these peptides. [Rats? Were there no studies on the usefulness or of vinegar in reducing blood pressure in humans then?]
The short chain fatty acids (acetic acid, butyric acid and propionic acid) all have decent anti-inflammatory properties. They have been successfully used to treat inflammatory bowel disease in a double-blind study. Vinegar is rich in acetic acid. [So… are you making the leap from a single positive study using short-chain fatty acids, to recommending a supplement that is ‘rich in’ one of these short chain fatty acids?]
The protective effect that dietary fiber has on colon cancer is probably from short chained fatty acids including acetic acid. Inert fiber like cellulose has no apparent benefit; the reduction in cancer is seen only with fermentable fiber. [What is your basis for that first statement? How do you know that the difference between soluble and insoluble fibres is down to fatty acids?]
Dilute acetic acid is also widely used in cervical exams because the cancerous and precancerous cells cannot deal with it, and they turn white and are easy to spot. [Forgive me, but what exactly is your point here?]
May 1, 2008 at 1:54 pm
I haven’t come across any studies of fermented vinegar and hypertension that includes humans. Other fermented foods that produce peptides to inhibit ACE and lower blood pressure have been tested in people. These include some milk ferments, soy sauce (the high sodium offsets some of the benefits in salt-sensitive individuals), fish protein lysates, etc.
I am not making a jump from one study that found anti-inflammatory effects to recommending that individuals use vinegar for any particular purpose. I am merely pointing out that acetate and related compounds have been ignored by nutritionists, yet they may have significant effects on the body. When one evaluates the folk use of vinegar for arthritis, the measured anti-inflammatory properties of vinegar might be of interest. Science has barely looked at this question, but has documented a reduction in COX enyzme activity in the GI mucosa of animals on a diet high in acetate, butyrate, etc. No one has looked into how much of these compounds pass into the blood and whether it might affect inflammatory processes away from the GI tract; the idea that vinegar has an effect similar to aspirin, acetaminophen, or ibuprofen is unproven but plausible.
With respects to fiber, the distinction I mentioned is not between soluble and insoluble, but rather between fermentable and non-fermentable. The soluble fibers are of interest in binding cholesterol and preventing its reabsorption. Soluble fiber may or may not be fermentable (much oat fiber is both soluble and fermentable, while semi-synthetic methylcellulose preparations are soluble but not fermentable (unless one is a termite)). Fermentable fiber increases the levels of acetate, butyrate, and propionate in the GI system, and there is a fairly large body of research that links these to chemoprevention. (search for “SCFA Colon Cancer” on Pubmed). Soluble fiber might have some benefits by sequestering toxic compounds and removing them from the body – too simple to say that it is only fermentable fiber as I may have implied, but SCFAs do seem to be of important for reducing cancer. While butyrate is the strongest of the SCFAs, acetate is significant, and these have been documented to change the expression of a wide variety of genes relevant to colon cancer, including uPA, TIMP-1, TIMP-2, p53, p21, Bax, Bcl-2 and PCNA.
With respect to the cervical exam and acetate: cancerous or deranged cells are often more susceptible to various chemicals (which may cause apoptosis, autoschizis, other reactions). The selective toxicity of acetate to cancerous and precancerous cells is used for diagnostic screening – so called ‘acetowhite positive lesions’ are formed when the acetic acid reacts vigorously with abnormal cells, but not with normal, healthy cells. Another indication that there may be more to vinegar than most people suspect.
May 1, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Another interesting study:
Asian Pac J Cancer Prev. 2003 Apr-Jun;4(2):119-24. Risk factors for oesophageal cancer in Linzhou, China: a case-control study.
This research found a pretty dramatic reduction in the risk for esophageal cancer in people that consumed the most beans (OR = 0.37), vegetables (0.40) and vinegar (0.37). Although this directly proves nothing, it is consistent with the idea that fermentable fiber and SCFAs are protective of certain cancers. Beans are famously rich in fermentable fiber (although they also contain flavonoids, protein, and other compounds). Vegetables (whichever people eat) are bound to contain fermentable fiber and a host of phytochemicals. And vinegar consumption alone is strongly correlated with reduced risk of esophageal cancer.
May 1, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Regarding anti-inflammatory properties of vinegar, there is some interesting stuff on the anti-inflammatory properties of eicosapentaenoic acid (an omega-3 fatty acid found in fish) and you can find papers on this in Pubmed. In fact, there’s one here regarding the formation and export of PGE3 from lung cancer cells exposed to EPA: http://www.jlr.org/cgi/content/full/45/6/1030. It’s interesting stuff – albeit interesting stuff that comes from an in-vitro study rather than a study in living, breathing human beings.
I’m not sure that there is any decent evidence for your claims for vinegar, though – it seems to be just speculation. You are talking about things being ‘unproven but plausible’ and claiming ’science has barely looked at this question’ – this could be seen as implying that vinegar has potential as an anti-inflammatory, but that no-one has bothered looking. There is no evidence that this is indeed the case.
Claiming that this possibility has been ‘ignored by nutritionists’ is also unjustified in my view – there are already plenty of nutritionists out there who will sell you some ACV tablets that you do not need. Why would you use something that you claim is ‘unproven but plausible’ when you already have treatments that are not only plausible, are proven?
You also talk about ‘evaluating the folk use of vinegar for arthritis’ – how would you evaluate folk use of vinegar? What about the folk use of frankinsense, boswellia, ginger or nettle leaf for arthritis? Do they have more merit than vinegar? Less? About the same? What about copper bracelets? See here for more examples of arthritis quackery: http://www.arthritis-treatment-and-relief.com/arthritis-cures.html. Folk use? It seems to me that folk use anything and everything they can get their hands on in order to try and relieve their arthritis symptoms. And dishonest charlatans – as well as well-meaning acquaintances – will give them plenty of ideas to try out.
May 1, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Interesting that you are again claiming benefit for vinegar with regards oesophogeal health – have you seen this study on Pubmed?
Esophageal injury by apple cider vinegar tablets and subsequent evaluation of products.
J Am Diet Assoc. 2005 Jul;105(7):1141-4.
PMID: 15983536 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
May 1, 2008 at 5:23 pm
The absence of evidence is rather different from proof that something is not effective. The ability to put a stamp of ’science’ on a claim (whether advocacy of some purported benefits or their dismissal) requires evidence. While you did a good job of disproving the claims that vinegar is a good source of minerals, you have not come close to answering the larger claims that vinegar may beneficially impact health.
The real issue, as I see it, is not whether there are people out there making outrageous claims for vinegar (there are). A more important set of questions include: “Is is acetic acid/acetate itself a nutritional factor?”, “Is vinegar an active component in traditional diets (like the Mediterranean and Okinawan diets)?”, “Is there evidence that vinegar may contribute to health and prevent or ameliorate disease?” I believe that the answer to these questions is yes, but there is relatively little research.
I’m puzzled by your reference to fish oils, inflammation and arthritis – although that is one area where many anecdotal or folk claims preceded science and have been verified by science. A few decades ago, fish oils were seen mostly as vitamin A and vitamin D in a base of non-extraordinary oil. The logic dispensed by conservative nutritionists was that this was good for preventing deficiencies of A and D, and that a few tablespoons through-out the year were sufficient as this prevented blindness and ricketts. Subsequent research has shown that the particular type of oil (omega-3s) can have profound effects on the metabolism of prostaglandins, thromboxanes, and other arachidonate compounds, and shift parts of the metabolism from a pro-inflammatory to anti-inflammatory condition. A daily supplement of fish oils is now recommended by many (including a leading non-profit consumer magazine). Why mention this particular article, which you conclude is an interesting study, but is merely theoretical because it comes from in vitro studies, not from studies on intact persons? A far more relevant article would be ‘Current clinical applications of omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids’ by Lee, et al., which concludes that “Rheumatoid arthritis (RA) is another disease entity that has been proven to benefit from this nutrition intervention, with improvement in symptoms and diminished nonsteroidal antiinflammatory drug (NSAID) usage.”
Your values and attitudes (and your interpretation of science) remind me of the debate over adding folate to processed foods. This debate lasted decades, and was fought at every step with arguments like “those in vitro studies are interesting, but very speculative” and “those animal studies are encouraging but people are not rats” and “epidemiological correlation should not be confused with causation.” Eventually, the bulk of evidence accumulated to the point where breakfast cereals were fortified with folate, and neural tube defects dropped dramatically. The mainstream patted themselves on the back for their brilliance, when in fact many actively resisted a safe, inexpensive intervention for years, during which time thousands of children were born with permanent disabilities.
May 1, 2008 at 5:24 pm
(continued)
As far as the use of boswellia, frankincense, and ginger for arthritis vs. the folk use of vinegar for arthritis, all that can be confidently said is that there is more research on boswellia and ginger, and that all indications are that boswellia, ginger and frankincense can be effective. It is difficult to comb PubMed for research on vinegar because the PubMed Mesh language equates most molecules that contain an acetate group with vinegar, even though we would expect testosterone acetate to be rather different than vinegar. But after applying my own search algorithms to PubMed on the topic of vinegar and arthritis, the only articles I found on vinegar and arthritis were opinion pieces- supporting my original statement that research is lacking.
The page you linked to was interesting – on one hand, it completely dismissed herbs for arthritis as unproven hokum. On the other hand, it said if you have arthritis, see a doctor, who may prescribe aspirin or some other medicine. Aspirin is, of course, a semi-synthetic form of salicylic acid originally isolated from willow bark. I believe that the big difference between aspirin and salicylic acid is in the absorption, but that both are metabolized to the same active ingredient in the body and that both are effective for various aches and pains.
I’m not surprised that a tablet of dried vinegar might cause esophageal damage – as a youth, I took aspirin on the advice of my doctor, and the tablet was not washed all the way into my stomach and it caused some ulceration in my gullet. I have never had such ulceration from eating pickles or sweet-sour chicken.
May 1, 2008 at 5:48 pm
“I believe the answer to these questions is yes” – if you are that convinced then why don’t you design a DBRCT on vinegar as an anti-inflammatory (or a trial comparing vinegar to an established anti-inflammatory)? If all you have is belief and you admit there is relatively little research then what is your point exactly? Do you think scientists are covering up the benefits of vinegar in order to sell more products for Big Pharma or do you think they are ignorant of the wondrous benefits of vinegar?
Yes – research is lacking. All that means is that your speculation is unjustified (in my opinion).
“A daily supplement of fish oils is recommended by many” – is it recommended by the FSA? How about the BDA? If I recall correctly, the answer to both questions is ‘no’.
BTW – I found your comment about epidemiology and Folic Acid interesting. Are you accusing me of being ‘anti-epidemiology’? I know epidemiology has its limits, but I have previously called it a life-saver: http://jdc325.wordpress.com/2008/04/18/epidemiology-a-life-saver/
I would also be interested in what you think my values and attitudes are and what your opinion is of my interpretation of science.
May 1, 2008 at 5:56 pm
By the way, Jonah – my original post dealt with the bullshit claims of Apple Cider Vinegar salesmen. I never said that vinegar couldn’t possibly be good for you, I just pointed out (a) the claims that were demonstrably false and (b) the claims for which there was no good evidence.
Without good evidence, do you think it is acceptable to make what are essentially medicinal claims? I don’t think it is my job to provide evidence that vinegar couldn’t possibly be good for arthritis – it is surely down to those who already claim it is to at least provide evidence (I’m not asking them to prove irrefutably that ACV cures arthritis – just to provide some decent evidence in favour of the hypothesis).
I still think my criticisms are valid.
May 1, 2008 at 6:43 pm
Well, I don’t have the resources to design and carry out a double-blind placebo controlled study for vinegar and arthritis at this point in time. And big pharma has actually done some research that is relevant – one example is “Anti-inflammatory properties of the short-chain fatty acids acetate and propionate: A study with relevance to inflammatory bowel disease” (AstraZenica). So it isn’t just me that is speculating; it is more than a tenuous hypothetical link.
I wouldn’t be surprised if big pharma ultimately develops some buffered, time released molecule that releases these SCFAs (which just happens to be patentable
) – but the basic science is building with respect to inflammation and acetate. I’m not prescribing anything as therapy for life threatening diseases, but think a modest doses of vinegar or dietary fiber seem appropriate to me as a part of a healthy diet, as a tonic, or for personal experimentation for mild, self-limiting disease.
Just got busy here, can’t write more today. Perhaps later.
May 2, 2008 at 11:48 am
Again, I’ve quoted Jonah’s comment and made my own italicised notes in square brackets
Well, I don’t have the resources to design and carry out a double-blind placebo controlled study for vinegar and arthritis at this point in time. And big pharma has actually done some research that is relevant – one example is “Anti-inflammatory properties of the short-chain fatty acids acetate and propionate: A study with relevance to inflammatory bowel disease” (AstraZenica). So it isn’t just me that is speculating; it is more than a tenuous hypothetical link. [The paper is on short-chain fatty acids, one of which is found in cider vinegar - the paper is not on ACV itself. That means your claim that ACV could be beneficial *is* speculative (just as an example, how do you know it is the acetate rather than propionate that is beneficial?). AstraZeneca are investigating short-chain fatty acids, you are speculating on ACV]
I wouldn’t be surprised if big pharma ultimately develops some buffered, time released molecule that releases these SCFAs (which just happens to be patentable
) – but the basic science is building with respect to inflammation and acetate. [Fair enough. That still doesn't mean that you can claim your ideas about vinegar and other fermented foods are anything other than speculation] I’m not prescribing anything as therapy for life threatening diseases, but think a modest doses of vinegar or dietary fiber seem appropriate to me as a part of a healthy diet, as a tonic, or for personal experimentation for mild, self-limiting disease. [Modest doses of fibre are an important part of a healthy diet - and people should ensure they consume sufficient fruit and veg to attain a reasonable intake of fibre. Modest doses of vinegar used as a condiment would seem totally reasonable to me - any theoretical health effects would be nothing more than potential side-benefits, but I certainly wouldn't discourage anyone from sprinkling vinegar on their chips. Or a bit of balsamic on their salad. I assume that you are using the word 'tonic' in a vague manner, meaning something like 'pick-me-up' - this is meaningless gobbledgook. How is vinegar a tonic, or pick-me-up? (The alternative is that you are using the word tonic to mean 'medicine' - which vinegar certainly isn't). I don't really think it is appropriate to recommend vinegar as an experimental health treatment, but I am glad that you stated mild, self-limiting disease. Incidentally, this would rule out most of the diseases listed by the ACV websites and apologists - e.g., cancer, arthritis etc...]
Just got busy here, can’t write more today. Perhaps later. [Cool - hope to hear from you again Jonah. Your comments and ideas have certainly been interesting. Thank you for taking the time to pass them on.]
May 2, 2008 at 4:47 pm
>> [The paper is on short-chain fatty acids, one of which is found in cider vinegar - the paper is not on ACV itself. That means your claim that ACV could be beneficial *is* speculative (just as an example, how do you know it is the acetate rather than propionate that is beneficial?). AstraZeneca are investigating short-chain fatty acids, you are speculating on ACV]
No, that study (and several others) have found that acetate itself has anti-inflammatory and immuno-regulatory properties. Vinegar contains large amounts of acetate. Vinegar is more than a flavoring.
The research does indicated that fermented vinegar does contain some things not found in distilled vinegar (including the peptides mentioned previously), although relatively little work has been done on apple vinegar versus other fermented vinegars. As to whether ACV is different from other fermented vinegars, I have no idea. When it comes to wine, most in the medical community would say sure, there is a difference between red wine, white wine, and vodka with respect to some effects on the body. I don’t see any reason why different vinegars would not have some different effects, although, again, I am not an ACV fetishist. (I do have 5 gallons of mead brewing, and two gallons of that will be fermented to vinegar.)
There were interesting studies on persimmon vinegar improving cholesterol in ethanol fed rats, and antioxidant status of humans, but the design of the studies does not give a clue as to what causes this improvement. Would have been interesting if they compared a control group to persimmon juice, persimmon wine, and persimmon vinegar.
>> I am glad that you stated mild, self-limiting disease. Incidentally, this would rule out most of the diseases listed by the ACV websites and apologists – e.g., cancer, arthritis etc…]
Arthritis (in its many forms) deserves medical attention, but if the doc says simply use NSAIDs when the pain is too much, then I would not see any reason why of vinegar on the food would be unwise, unless the NSAID was causing gastric erosion. Even then, diluted vinegar would be far less reactive than normal stomach acid after eating.
Cancer is a serious disease, and there is no evidence that vinegar is any thing close to an appropriate therapeutic for that. But assuming that proper treatment is in place, again, I see no general reason to avoid vinegar (or olive oil, fish oil, fruits and veggies, and other good foods).
May 2, 2008 at 6:27 pm
“I see no general reason to avoid vinegar (or olive oil, fish oil, fruits and veggies, and other good foods).”
Yes – I agree. I think Michael Pollan put it very nicely when he wrote “Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.” As I said in a previous comment, I don’t wish to discourage anyone from using vinegar. I simply think that the purported benefits of ACV have been vastly overstated by the websites I referred to in my blog post. They are potential, rather than proven benefits and it is, in my view, inappropriate – and certainly premature – for anyone to claim vinegar as a cure for the conditions I mentioned in my post.
May 19, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Minerals and vitamins mean nothing, you aren’t taking it to get your daily dose of zinc, plus you have the typos of an 8 year old, get over it, its the natural chemicals in it which is a cure-all, not the miniscule amounts of minerals
May 20, 2008 at 9:19 am
It was claimed by a cider vinegar acolyte that cider vinegar contained a perfect balance of minerals. I debunked the claim. Did you read my post before you criticised it?
I hate typos – in fact, I hate mistakes in general. Please feel free to point out errors wherever you see them on this site. Apart from ‘obtian’ in the third para, I can’t see any typos. Are you sure I’ve made others? Perhaps you’d be kind enough to point them out. Thanks!
Ah, natural chemicals ‘is a cure-all’. Cool. How about these natural chemicals: arsenic, snake venom, anthrax, poisonous mushrooms and lead? Natural does not automatically equal good and synthetic does not automatically equal bad. Try this paper from Bruce Ames: http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/87/19/7782 or this article: http://potency.berkeley.edu/pdfs/Politicizing_Science.pdf
August 1, 2008 at 1:59 pm
I suffered from plantar fasiaitis for many years to the point where I missed red wing stanley cup finals because it hurt too much to walk. My doctor put me on celebrix, bextra and the other “miracle drug” that CAN kill you, none worked. One night I woke up with heartburn and instead of taking a “heart burn medication” I took a teaspoon of vinegar. My heartburn was gone by the time I got back in bed. I started drinking a shot glass of vinegar and pounding a large glass of water first thing in the morning.
After about 3 weeks, I noticed the pain in myhands was gone, soon after the pain in my feet left. I have had no sign of plantar fasciaitis for the past 4 years. I attribute it to my consumption of vinegar. I fired my doctor. JDC325, you are an idiot. I hate idiots.
August 1, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Hi mcpete.
I’m glad you recovered from your Plantar Fasciitis. Speaking personally, I wouldn’t fire my doctor if I were you – but that’s your choice to make and I guess you can do as you see fit with regards your medical treatment.
I find it odd that you are so angry with me for setting out the evidence on Apple Cider Vinegar in this blog post though. Then again…
“JDC325, you are an idiot. I hate idiots.” You are, of course, welcome to your opinion as to whether or not I am an idiot (I make no claims that I am intelligent and am perfectly happy for people to believe otherwise). I do think it is sad that anyone would hate someone for being an idiot though.
October 5, 2008 at 6:02 pm
Hmmm, I always found the best prevention for plantar fasciitis was having decently supportive and shock absorbing shoes! On a random note I was at a cider factory tour today and told that when they have a failed batch it gets sold to companies who make cider vinegar. So it is in fact just failed cider… Oh and just to say I never realised how much woo there was about vinegar!
November 2, 2008 at 2:46 pm
arthritis herbal cure…
I personally agree with your comments, but there will always be some people who may not feel the same….
November 5, 2008 at 6:02 am
Do you sell or could you recommend a source for a reputable fermented vinegar. Please tell me what you can about it and provide email address/s.
November 22, 2008 at 8:16 pm
There is a company called Bragg which sells an unfiltered apple cider vinegar which is of good quality. You can easily order this product online or pick it up at most Whole Foods locations… For whatever reason you may want it.
December 9, 2008 at 3:37 pm
http://www.the-apple-cider-vinegar-company.com
December 9, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Heh – can you guess where Edgar works, children? According to the site linked in the above comment, ACV can “re-mineralise” the body (”High In Potassium, Magnesium, Calcium”) and top up important vitamins and trace elements. For a better idea of how good ACV is at remineralising your body and topping up your vitamins, check out my blog post above. And just for context, think about this: How much Cider Vinegar do you need to consume in order to get 300mg of Potassium? 410 grams. How much baked potato would you have to eat in order to obtain the same amount of potassium? 56 grams. High in potassium, magnesium and calcium? Rubbish!
February 18, 2009 at 10:47 am
high soluble fiber diet…
I loved Best Road Map to Best Diet For High Cholesterol Aims At Controlling …!…
April 10, 2009 at 12:38 pm
Patty…
…
May 18, 2009 at 7:02 pm
I don’t care what anybody says about Apple Cider Vinegar. I suffered through three years of horrible hot flashes and mood swings. I barely slept for 3 years and would not take hormones because of breast cancer in my family. I finally remembered that my grandmother always said Apple cider Vinegar would cure any imbalance in the body. I started drinking a glass of water in the morning with two tablespoons of Apple Cider Vinegar and another glass in the evening. By the second day, my hot flashes were completely gone. I’ve been drinking this for a year and have not had a hot flash since. I can actually feel my body temperature cooling down when I drink this stuff. You’ll never convince me it’s not miracle stuff!
May 18, 2009 at 9:06 pm
I’m glad to hear that you feel your health has improved. I hesitate to suggest that regression to the mean or the placebo effect might have something to do with it, but I’m yet to be convinced that ACV is “miracle stuff” Susan. Thanks for your comment, though.
July 3, 2009 at 9:25 pm
[...] Principle Healthcare, vendors of Apple Cider Vinegar pills. [There's a little bit more on ACV here: old blog post, please don't laugh at my amateurish early efforts at [...]
July 7, 2009 at 6:54 pm
jdc…you are violating your own #1 rule…WHERE is the scientifically controlled human studies that PROVE that ACV does NOT do what individuals claim that it does??…you claimed there are no studies that proves it provides health benefits…wrong, a five minute search turned up results on controlled study for diabetics
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/27/1/281.full
and another with results to be published on 7/8/09 which as i understand includes human trial as follow up to the mice..
Researchers found that the mice developed a lot less body fat (up to 10% less) than mice who didn’t receive the vinegar compound. The amount of food eaten by the mice was not affected.
It’s believed that acetic acid turns on genes that produce proteins that help the body break down fats. Such an action helps prevent fat buildup in body, and thwarts weight gain.
The findings are scheduled to be published in the July 8, 2009 issue of Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry.
Come on jdc, step it up man!…lol
July 8, 2009 at 2:36 pm
@Deb O:
1. It’s not up to me to find studies that prove that ACV does not do what it is claimed to do – it is up to those making claims to provide evidence for them.
2. I claimed that there were (at the time I wrote this post) no studies indexed on Pubmed that showed that ACV was beneficial in humans. I didn’t claim that there were *no* studies. The paper you link to is not indexed on Pubmed.
3. In the paper you link to, the control group had only 8 subjects, there is no detail as to what placebo drink was used (e.g., whether the authors were able to provide a placebo drink indistinguishable from the ACV drink in terms of taste), one of the improvements was not statistically significant (P=0.07), and the authors (far from claiming that the case for ACV is proven) conclude by stating that “Further investigations to examine the efficacy of vinegar as an antidiabetic therapy are warranted”.
4. The paper you link to refers to ACV in treating insulin sensitivity. The claims I criticised in my post were as follows: a weight loss aid, a cure for arthritis, a cholesterol-lowering aid, and (according to Earth Clinic) it “cures more ailments than any other folk remedy”. Where are the papers that back up these claims?
5. “The findings are scheduled to be published in the July 8, 2009 issue of Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry.” Why are you citing an unpublished paper?